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An Oklahoma tourist says he faces 12 years in prison in the Caribbean after he mistakenly left 4 bullets from a hunting trip in his carry-on duffel bag
Margaret Whittaker/Design Pics Editorial/Universal Images Group via Getty Images
Ryan Watson was on vacation when he was charged with illegally carrying ammo into Turks and Caicos.He and his wife, Valerie, say the four bullets in their duffel bag were unknowingly left there from a hunting trip.Watson now faces 12 years in prison, alongside several US tourists charged for similar offenses.An Oklahoma man traveling with his wife in the Caribbean territory of Turks and Caicos faces 12 years in prison after four rounds of ammunition were found in his luggage.
Ryan and Valerie Watson arrived in Turks and Caicos earlier this month to celebrate his 40th birthday with several other couples, their families said in a GoFundMe. NBC Boston reported that the Watsons arrived on April 7.
But the pair, who have two young children, were arrested in the self-governed British territory after airport security found the four bullets in their carry-on duffel bag.
Their families' GoFundMe said the ammo had been left in the bag unintentionally, and was from a prior deer hunting trip.
"They were hunting ammunition rounds that I use for white-tailed deer, and I recognized them, and I thought: 'Oh, what a mistake.' I had no idea that they were in there," Ryan Watson told NBC News.
Valerie Watson was released from the charges on Tuesday and flew back to Oklahoma to reunite with her children.
But her husband remains in Turks and Caicos, and was granted $15,000 bail the day after by the local supreme court, according to a police statement.
He now faces 12 years in prison, which is the minimum custodial sentence for bringing firearms or ammunition into Turks and Caicos.
Ryan Watson must stay on the islands and report twice a week to a local police station while waiting for his hearing, which is set for June 7.
Meanwhile, his family is trying to raise $300,000 for his legal fees and housing in the Caribbean.
"Isolated from their family, friends, and children, they face mounting legal fees, living expenses, and the overwhelming stress of their situation," their GoFundMe reads. "The emotional and financial toll is immense, and they are at risk of losing everything."
"We were trying to pack board shorts and flip flops," Valerie Watson told CBS News. "Packing ammunition was not at all our intent."
The Watsons did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent outside regular business hours by Business Insider through their GoFundMe.
Eight US tourists prosecuted since February
It is illegal to bring firearms or ammunition into Turks and Caicos, and penalties apply regardless of the offender's status or country of origin, according to the local attorney general's chambers.
Several tourists caught under this law were previously let off with just a fine, while at least one was given a prison sentence under the minimum limit.
But in February, a court of appeal ordered that all offenders be given at least the minimum sentence of 12 years in prison.
At least eight tourists from the US have since been prosecuted under this rule, per the attorney general's chambers.
Another American tourist, 31-year-old Tyler Wenrich, was charged on Tuesday with possessing ammunition after he arrived in Turks and Caicos on a cruise ship, according to local police.
"While going through a security checkpoint, it was discovered Mr Wenrich allegedly had ammunition in his possession," a police statement said.
Amid the recent spate of tourist arrests, the US State Department published a September advisory warning US citizens that it wouldn't be able to secure their release if they brought firearms and ammo into Turks and Caicos.
"We strongly encourage you to carefully check your luggage for stray ammunition or forgotten weapons before departing for TCI," the advisory said.
The US State Department did not immediately respond to a request for comment sent outside regular business hours by Business Insider.
Tourism is a key revenue for Turks and Caicos, and in 2019 provided about $787 million, or 65% of the island's GDP, to the territory, per a 2023 report by the Commonwealth Chamber of Commerce.
The Caribbean archipelago is a popular port of call for US cruise ships, and this year has seen a 127% jump in tourist arrivals — the largest increase in the world — compared to 2019, the United Nations World Tourism Organization said in February.
Microsoft's going to keep spending big as AI continues to boom
Justin Sullivan/Getty Images
Microsoft plans to boost spending on AI and cloud services as demand rises.The company made $26.7 billion in revenue this quarter from cloud products, including Azure.Microsoft's spending commitment follows leaked plans to acquire 1.8 million AI chips in 2024.Microsoft won't slow down its artificial intelligence spending spree anytime soon.
In its third-quarter earnings call on Thursday, the tech giant said it will continue to invest in AI and cloud services because of growing demand and a rise in average spending on its cloud platform, Azure.
Capital expenditure — what a company spends on buying or maintaining assets — will increase "materially," Amy Hood, Microsoft's chief financial officer, said on the call.
"Currently, near-term AI demand is a bit higher than our available capacity," Hood said.
The company spent nearly $11 billion on property and equipment in the third quarter — 66% more than it spent in the same period a year ago.
Microsoft booked $26.7 billion in revenue in the third quarter from its cloud products, including Azure, according to the earnings statement.
AI assistant Copilot grew its paid subscribers by 35% this quarter, to 1.8 million, CEO Satya Nadella said on the call.
Microsoft's better-than-expected earnings sent stock up 4% in after-hours trading. Both revenue and earnings per share beat Wall Street estimates.
The company's plans to spend more come on the heels of other big commitments to developing AI. Last week, BI reported on leaked documents showing the company plans to obtain 1.8 million AI chips by the end of 2024 and ramp up its data center capacity.
The explosive interest in generative AI and foundation models is fueling a need for more data centers, including from Microsoft partner OpenAI, the startup behind ChatGPT and GPT-4.
AI models need to be trained on mountains of data, which requires thousands of graphics processing units produced by companies like Nvidia. Microsoft is designing its own chips to reduce its reliance on Nvidia.
Newly minted RNC chair Lara Trump says they've got lawsuits cooking in 81 states. There are 50 states.
Timothy A. Clary/AFP via Getty Images
Lara Trump says the RNC has been working hard to tackle voter fraud ahead of the upcoming elections."We have lawsuits in 81 states right now," Lara told Newsmax on Tuesday.The gaffe drew multiple jokes from social media as well as from late-night host Jimmy Kimmel.Lara Trump may have had a little slip-up when announcing the Republican National Committee's approach to tackling voter fraud.
The newly elected RNC cochair — who's married to former President Donald Trump's son, Eric — said in a Newsmax interview on Tuesday that the RNC has engaged poll watchers and lawyers to oversee and monitor the upcoming elections.
"So in addition to these poll workers, we're gonna have lawyers in all the major polling locations across the country," she told Newsmax host Eric Bolling.
During the interview, she also referenced the lawsuits the RNC has filed, questioning election integrity. Last month, the RNC filed a lawsuit against Michigan's secretary of state, Jocelyn Benson, claiming that the state's voter rolls are inflated.
"We have lawsuits in 81 states right now," Trump told Bolling.
The US, however, only has 50 states.
RNC co-Chair Lara Trump: We have lawsuits in 81 states right now pic.twitter.com/3vZ8mRYvgE
— DNC War Room (@DNCWarRoom) April 24, 2024Trump's gaffe prompted multiple jokes on social media, with some even throwing out comical explanations for how the US may actually have an additional 31 states no one knows about yet.
"Maybe there are 81 states in the future and she's a time traveler," an X user named Mike Freeman said in a post.
Late-night host Jimmy Kimmel couldn't resist mocking Lara Trump either when he referenced the moment in his monologue on Wednesday night.
"In 81 states! Not just Tennessee, eleven-essee, twelve-essee. West Dakota, South Virginia. Indiana, Out-diana, you name it, they're suing," Kimmel joked.
This isn't the first time the new RNC chair has been criticized for her remarks.
Earlier in April, she also claimed on Newsmax that no other president has been treated as badly as Donald Trump.
The former TV news producer was elected cochair of the RNC in March, along with former North Carolina GOP chair Michael Whatley. She received a glowing endorsement from Donald Trump, who tapped her for the position.
"Lara is an extremely talented communicator and is dedicated to all that MAGA stands for," the former president said of his "very talented daughter-in-law" in February.
That hasn't stopped Lara Trump's critics from slamming her. Last week, she fired back when a viewer questioned her intellect on her podcast, "The Right View with Lara Trump."
"Nothing stupid over here, I've done my research," Lara said.
AuditBoard upgrades its risk management platform with built-in LLM descriptions
Microsoft and Alphabet just proved AI boom has room to run
Justin Sullivan, Ethan Miller/Getty Images
Microsoft and Alphabet reported quarterly earnings that beat Wall Street's expectations.Their CEOs said that their profits are in part thanks to their companies' investments in AI.This is going to be "a goldmine situation for them," Wedbush's Dan Ives told CNBC.Investors just got a sneak peek at what the fruits of massive AI investments could look like.
On Thursday, just off the heels of Meta's mixed first-quarter results that caused a dip on Wall Street, Microsoft and Alphabet just proved that there's money to be made off of artificial intelligence.
Microsoft reported $21.9 billion in profits for its quarter ending on March 31, a 20% increase from the last fiscal year of the same period. Google's parent company reported $23.7 billion in profits, a 57% increase from the last fiscal year period.
Both profit results beat analysts' expectations, and the companies' leaders say they have AI to thank for that.
During an earnings call on Thursday, Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai acknowledged that a large part of its first-quarter performance is due to Google's search engine. However, the executive also made sure to highlight the contributions of Google Cloud, which now comes with generative AI services through Google's AI model, Gemini.
"In Cloud, we have announced more than 1,000 new products and features over the past 8 months. At Google Cloud Next, more than 300 customers and partners spoke about their generative AI successes with Google Cloud, including global brands like Bayer, Cintas, Mercedes Benz, Walmart, and many more," Pichai told investors in the call.
Ruth Porat, Alphabet's chief financial officer, said in the call that Google's cloud segment saw $9.6 billion in revenue, and part of that is a reflection of "an increasing contribution from AI."
Similarly, Microsoft said its latest quarter received a boost from its cloud services.
According to a company press release, Microsoft reeled in $26.7 billion in revenue from its cloud products, including Azure. The company said that 7% of its growth from Azure came from AI.
Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella's sole statement in the press release highlights the company's investment in artificial intelligence, namely Microsoft Copilot, which is an AI assistant for Azure.
"Microsoft Copilot and Copilot stack are orchestrating a new era of AI transformation, driving better business outcomes across every role and industry," Nadella said in the press release.
Investors appeared pleased with Microsoft's and Alphabet's quarterly performance, which gave the companies a stock surge, as Wall Street continues to nurse a hangover from Meta's first-quarter report.
Wedbush analyst Dan Ives told CNBC on Thursday that the reaction is a "stark change" from what Wall Street saw 24 hours ago with Meta.
"They have a goldmine of AI engineers and data, and now they're starting to monetize it," Ives said of Alphabet and Microsoft. It's a "goldmine situation for them on AI," he added.
CEOs make the message clear on AI's big payoff: Be patient
Andrew Caballero-Reynolds, Halil Sagirkaya, Beata Zawrzel/Getty Images
Major companies are pouring vast amounts of resources and money into artificial intelligence.But many have yet to see any significant returns on their investment.CEOs hope to re-assure shareholders that this is to be expected.Some of the largest companies in the world are placing major bets right now on artificial intelligence.
In 2023, Apple spent more than $22 billion on R&D for generative AI products. Meta projected in its latest quarterly earnings that it will spend somewhere in the range of $35 to $40 billion this year alone, largely to improve its AI infrastructure.
Google's AI exec Demis Hassabis upped the ante and said that he expects the search engine giant to spend more than $100 billion on the technology.
Sam Altman, OpenAI's CEO, has an even bigger number: Up to $7 trillion in order to transform the semiconductor industry that will power AI.
That's a lot of money going into something that hasn't generated much revenue so far — with the exception of a few companies.
But leaders of businesses pouring tons of resources into AI are saying the same thing to reassure any impatient shareholders: Stick around. It's coming.
On Wednesday, Meta's stock tumbled despite beating sales expectations partly due to its heavy investments in AI and so-so revenue projections. CEO Mark Zuckerberg hoped to ease any investor concerns by saying that this downturn is temporary.
"Historically, investing to build these new scaled experiences in our apps has been a very good long-term investment for us and for investors who have stuck with us. And the initial signs are quite positive here too," Zuckerberg told investors in an earnings call. "But building the leading AI will also be a larger undertaking than the other experiences we've added to our apps, and this is likely going to take several years on the upside once our new AI services reach scale."
Elon Musk had even stronger words for investors on Tuesday after Tesla reported plunging profits.
The EV company has so far yet to deliver on its promise of autonomous driving, instead giving drivers its Full-Self Driving software, which is really a driver-assistance feature that requires full-time supervision of the operator.
Even so, Musk insisted during an earnings call that Tesla is an AI company and had a specific message to any shareholder who thinks that Tesla won't develop self-driving someday.
"If somebody doesn't believe that Tesla is going to solve autonomy, I think they should not be an investor in the company," he said during the call. "And we will. And we are."
Will AI deliver?
Other CEOs have wondered how and when generative AI will deliver on its ambitious promises.
In January, during the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, AI was the hot topic of the moment, but some tech leaders remained cautious of the technology.
Matthew Prince, CEO of Cloudflare, told Reuters at the time that people should expect an "AI letdown" in the coming months.
"Everyone's like, yeah, I can build these cool demos, but where's the real value?" he told the outlet.
Shareholders at Meta were certainly spooked by Zuckerberg's "wait-and-see" line.
Nvidia could be the exception to the case. After all, they're the leading makers of the very chips that power the AI products companies are rushing to build.
Earlier this year, Nvidia smashed fourth-quarter expectations by reporting $22.1 billion in revenue, thanks in part to a surge in AI demand.
On Thursday, Microsoft and Alphabet reported profits, which they ascribed in part to their respective AI sectors.
Microsoft beat Wall Street's expectations by reporting $21.9 billion in profits for the quarter ending on March 31. The company attributed that growth to its cloud computing platform, Azure, which includes generative AI services.
Google's parent company reported $23.7 billion in profits for the same period. Alphabet chief executive Sundar Pichai attributed some of the company's most recent quarter's performance to its cloud services, which is now equipped with Gemini, Google's AI model.
"We are well underway with our Gemini era, and there's great momentum across the company," Pichai said in a statement. "Our leadership in AI research and infrastructure and our global product footprint position us well for the next wave of AI innovation."
A woman moved to Florida after her home burned in the Lahaina fires, and the cheapest Maui rental she could find was $10,000 a month
Mario Tama/Getty Images
The fires in Maui, Hawaii, displaced 6,200 families, many of whom are still looking for housing.Some locals have left the state altogether, while others are desperate to stay in their communities.Lawmakers are weighing a bill aimed at curbing short-term rentals across Hawaii.When the fires in Maui, Hawaii, tore through the historic town of Lahaina in August 2023, 6,200 families were suddenly homeless, left to scramble for long-term housing through the sea of short-term rentals that have proliferated on the island.
Amy Chadwick, a Lahaina resident whose home burned in the fire, told The Associated Press she wasn't able to find housing in Maui that worked for her family for less than $10,000 a month. Instead, Chadwick and her family moved to Satellite Beach, Florida.
"You're pushing out an entire community of service industry people. So no one's going to be able to support the tourism that you're putting ahead of your community," Chadwick, who works as a server at a fine-dining establishment, told AP. "Nothing good is going to come of it unless they take a serious stance, putting their foot down and really regulating these short-term rentals."
Other residents who lost their Lahaina homes in the August 8 fire are still in temporary housing more than eight months later.
Shannon I'i, who lost her home in the fire, told Hawaii outlet KITV that her family is among the hundreds who are still living in a hotel.
"It is rough," she told the outlet. "But we do what we have to do to survive."
I'i said her family was recently told they'll have to move out, so they are again looking for housing, but they don't want to have to move away. "To be able to stay on west side of Maui with our community, that is the most important thing for me," she told KITV.
Vacation rentals that cater to tourists and can cost hundreds of dollars per night have long been a problem in Maui, but the Lahaina fires and displacement of thousands of families exacerbated the issue and made it more visible. State lawmakers are weighing a bill that would give counties across Hawaii the ability to phase out short-term rentals.
"There are about 7,000 short term rental units on Maui in apartment zoning and 2,200 are in West Maui," Keani Rawlins-Fernandez, a Maui city councilwoman, told KITV. "It would immediately provide housing for those folks who want to stay in West Maui, which is the majority of our folks looking for housing right now."
Gov. Josh Green has said he would sign the bill, SB 2919, if it passes the state legislature. The bill has been championed by Lahaina Strong, an advocacy group for the Maui wildfire survivors.
"We've helped change that conversation of 'build build build' to now, 'What about the inventory we already have?'" Paele Kiakona, a member of Lahaina Strong, told Hawaii News Now.
"On top of keeping people here and making it more affordable, we've potentially opened up an avenue to bring our people back," Kiakona added.
I never wanted to have kids in the US. Now, I'm happily raising a toddler in Germany.
Susannah Edelbaum
Susannah Edelbaum got inspired to move from New York to Berlin 10 years ago while visiting friends.She ended up getting married and having a baby in Germany but has struggled with a lot of bureaucracy.She was impressed with the postpartum care and has no interest in going back to the US.I didn't move to Berlin to get married and have a baby. I moved at 29 after visiting some friends. I had gotten the sense that if I didn't at least try to live in this city, which felt so much calmer, greener, and yet more alive than New York, I'd regret it. My cat and I arrived three months later.
That was 10 years ago, when Berlin was still called "poor, but sexy," and other twenty-somethings traveled to spend entire weekends in the city's techno clubs and live on the cheap in what used to be one of Europe's most affordable capitals. Even these days, cost of living in Berlin is 35% less expensive than New York, according to Numbeo.
I didn't expect to partner up and settle down, but pleasantly, that's what happened.
Getting married in Germany turned out to be so bureaucratically complicated that my boyfriend and I ended up going to Denmark to get hitched. Copenhagen, along with the island of Ærø, is Europe's equivalent of Las Vegas when it comes to streamlined marriage procedures.
And, when we had our baby in 2022, I moved on from puzzling over how to get into the city's tightly-guarded techno clubs to puzzling over how to get my toddler a spot at a Kita, or German day care. The latter is infinitely harder, it turns out.
Berlin is great for parents. That's probably why there are so many.
Germany offers excellent maternity care, including postpartum home visits by a midwife, and down the road, various degrees of subsidized day care — the exact setup varies state by state. But in Berlin both midwives and day care centers are in short supply, according to local news channel RBB24.
This became clear when I was just seven weeks into my pregnancy and at the gynecologist. She asked me if I'd started looking for a midwife. I hadn't. "Well, then you're already late," my doctor sighed.
A few weeks later, I set an alarm and started calling the hospital that had been recommended. To register there, the hospital required expecting parents to call at exactly 12 weeks plus one day into pregnancy — try a day later, and they'd be full. Around 10 calls in, I got through.
A couple of months after that, we took a stab at the Kita Navigator, an online system aimed at helping parents find and contact daycares. Landing a Kita spot in Berlin is notoriously difficult — according to a 2023 report from the research foundation Bertelsmann Stiftung, the city is short around 17,000 places.
I'd heard parents-to-be should get on waiting lists while still expecting, with the goal of securing a place for an unborn child once they turned a year old. My husband and I — mystified as to how to enter the name and birthdate of a baby still in utero — quickly gave up on attempting to navigate the unnavigable Kita Navigator.
Then came the flurry of bureaucracy
For our son's German birth certificate, my own US birth certificate needed an apostille, an extra layer of authentication that this official document is indeed official.
For the baby's US citizenship, we needed to do a Consular Report of a Birth Abroad at the embassy. Off I went on an archaeological dig through our apartment for documentation to prove I'd previously lived in the US as an adult, as there's a residency requirement in order to pass on citizenship. Laid out end-to-end, everything we needed for the CRBA covered our bedroom floor.
To apply for Kindergeld, a monthly child subsidy, and Elterngeld, parental leave pay, there were paper applications that needed to be physically mailed off to various overburdened Berlin administrative offices. All I remember is running on about five hours of broken sleep per night, handing the baby off to my visiting mother-in-law in between nursing sessions, and tackling a pile of paperwork.
The author says that Berlin is filled with playgrounds and her toddler always wants to stop and play.Susannah Edelbaum
I'm thrilled to be raising a toddler in Berlin
Despite the late start, I found a midwife. The postpartum care she offered me and our newborn was excellent, and I wish it were standard everywhere. Besides weighing the baby, checking that breastfeeding was going well, cleaning his umbilical cord stump, and doing the first bath with us, she gave me week-by-week worksheets with gentle pelvic floor exercises, which I wound up translating for my friend in the US, who'd given birth the day before me and been given nothing of the sort.
As for Kita, when my son was a few months old, I walked him around our neighborhood for 90 minutes while he napped and I wrote down the contact information posted in the window of every day care we passed, then emailed them individually. That worked. Now a toddler, he loves his Kita. It took around thirty waitlists to get offered a single spot, but all you need is one.
I later learned that other expecting parents, particularly non-German speakers, pay self-styled experts to get certain tasks done, like applying for parental leave pay and navigating the Kita system. As a German-speaking household, we didn't go down this route.
Taken individually, no one task here is that difficult, it just felt like a lot altogether, lurching from one form to waitlist to the next, all while exhausted from pregnancy and the newborn months. But hey, the countervailing force of a safety net is a bureaucracy required to administer it. And I can hardly complain that the city's administrative offices are overburdened. People keep moving to Berlin, and I'm one of them.
My son understands everything he hears in both German and English. Getting around this city, where the public transit elevators work around 80% of the time and mostly don't smell like urine, is way better than anyone can say for New York's subway system.
Our biggest problem these days is the most non-problem a parent can have: Berlin has too many playgrounds. It's impossible to find a route anywhere from our apartment where we won't pass one, and our son always wants to stop and play.
Intel reports 9% YoY Q1 growth, driven by computing, AI and edge products
The 10 best large litter boxes for big cats in 2024
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The best large litter boxes give big cats the extra space they need to eliminate comfortably.Chewy; KittyGoHere; Boxscoop/Business Insider
Whether you have one cat or five, providing them with one of the best large litter boxes will save you headaches and messes in the long run. Cats need space to avoid stepping on soiled spots and comfortably dig and bury their waste. "Litter box use is important, and I like knowing my cats are happy with their boxes," says Stephen Quandt, a certified cat behavior specialist and founder of Cat Behavior Help. That's because when cats are unhappy with their litter boxes, they'll go to the bathroom elsewhere. If a cat pees or poops over the side of the box, perches on the walls of the box, or leaves the box to cover their waste, then the litter box is too small.
With input from cat behaviorists and a veterinarian, we researched the largest litter boxes for cats of varying ages and needs. Our top pick, the KittyGoHere Jumbo Litter Box, is a generous 28 inches long. For about $40 less, the Smart Cat Ultimate Litter Box will keep most cats happy with its 25-inch long interior. Our other recommendations range from do-it-yourself boxes to high-end designs guaranteed to last a lifetime. If you want even more options, you can check out our guide to the overall best cat litter boxes.
Read more about how Insider Reviews tests and researches pet products.
Our top picks for the best large litter boxes
Best overall: KittyGoHere Jumbo Litter Box - See at KittyGoHere
Best budget: Smart Cat Ultimate Litter Box - See at Chewy
Best hooded: Frisco Hooded Cat Litter Box - See at Chewy
Best DIY: Iris 50 Qt. Latch Lid Underbed Storage Box - See at Amazon
Best top-entry: Modkat XL Top-Entry Litter Box - See at Amazon
Best nonstick: PetFusion BetterBox Non-Stick - See at Chewy
Best metal: iPrimio Stainless Steel Cat XL Litter Box - See at Chewy
Best automatic: Litter-Robot 4 - See at Chewy
Best with high sides: NVR Miss Litterbox - See at Agrifeed Pet Supply
Best round: Boxscoop Curve XL - See at Boxscoop
Best overall
A litter box should be at least 1.5 times the length of your cat from nose to tail, according to Molly DeVoss, a certified cat behavior specialist and founder of Cat Behavior Solutions. Your cat's body should not touch the sides while in the box. It's also important that all cats who use it can access it easily and should be easy to clean.
The KittyGoHere checks all these boxes. DeVoss's cats, including a large 17-inch long tabby, use this box, which she likes for its simplicity and large interior. Many cats favor a large litter box that feels natural to use, and a simplistic open design means no latches, hoods, or drawers to fuss with when cleaning the box.
At 28 inches long by 22 inches wide, this is the best of the extra-large litter boxes for big cats. Even cats the size of Maine coons can comfortably enter. The design includes a low 3-inch-high entry, making it a great option for senior cats. Many cats over 10 years old have arthritis, so providing a box with a low entry that doesn't require a step up is really important, says DeVoss. Walls that are 9 inches high also reduce the chances of an aggressive digger kicking litter out of the box. But we recommend pairing this box with a mat to catch rogue litter.
If your kitten or senior cat doesn't need quite so large of a box, another great pick is Shirley K's Senior Cat Litter Box, which is 25 inches long and wide. This box also has 9-inch sides and an entry just 3 inches high to accommodate cats with limited mobility.
Best budget
Our experts all agree that a cat needs more than one litter box. In fact, you should have one litter box for each cat plus one additional box. You'll also want to place these boxes in separate but secure locations. "A litter box on each floor is ideal," says Denise Johnson, a fear-fear certified veterinarian and cat behavior consultant at IndeVets. Of course, the cost of multiple litter boxes can quickly add up.
You can find plenty of litter boxes for around $15, but they tend to run on the smaller side. For a larger litter box with veterinarian-recommended features, the Smart Cat Ultimate Litter Box is an affordable pick at $22.
It has a design that Johnson prefers in litter boxes — a taller rear wall to prevent litter scattering and a tapered front for easy entry. Plus, the Smart Cats litter box is made of easy-to-clean plastic resin and features an extra-large rim for effortless handling. The one downside of this 25-by-18.5-inch litter box: It only comes in bright blue.
Best hooded
Like top-entry boxes, covered litter boxes provide more privacy for cats and help reduce wafting odors. But unlike most top-entry litter boxes, hooded or covered boxes offer user-friendly front entrances.
You can set up the Frisco Hooded Cat Litter Box however you and your cat prefer. If your cat doesn't like the door, you can easily remove it. If they seem hesitant to use a hooded box, you can completely detach the cover. We love this customizability because it offers the opportunity to explore your cat's personal preferences on a budget and named it our top pick for the best cat litter boxes. "Keep track of what they like to do where and make adjustments accordingly," says Johnson.
The 26-by-18-inch litter box comes in three easy-to-assemble pieces: a high-sided pan, a hood that clips on, and a charcoal filter for absorbing odors.
Best DIY
When shopping for the best large litter box, you might often feel you're paying too much for a design that somehow falls short of what you want. If that's the case, DeVoss says you can make a DIY litter box from plastic storage boxes. She prefers low-sided under-the-bed bins, but clear high-sided totes work well, too.
"Select one with a bottom smooth enough to clean easily," says Johnson. And while online marketplaces can be a good place to score a cheap (or even free) storage tote, Johnson says not to purchase a used litter box.
You'll want to follow the same size requirements: 1.5 times the length of your cat. You can cut an entry door at any height to suit your cat's needs. The Iris 50-quart plastic bin measures 32 inches long by 17.75 inches wide, with a height of 6 and a half inches. In short, it's long enough for even very long cats. Our experts don't recommend covered litter boxes. However, if you'd like to leave the lid on your DIY box, adding a second entrance and ventilation slots will make the box more ideal for your cat.
Best top-entry
When choosing among the best large litter boxes, you'll want to select one that works for both you and your cat. The best top-entry litter boxes do a great job minimizing litter tracking and concealing messes in the box. However, they can also block your cat's view of their surroundings and trap odors when not cleaned frequently. Some cats may also have a harder time accessing a top-entry box. Because of these reasons, not all cats like them, Quandt says.
The Modkat XL litter box tackles some of those issues with its thoughtful feline-friendly design. First, as the name suggests, it has plenty of room at 21 inches long, 16 inches wide, and 17 inches tall. But what makes this design unlike other top-entry litter boxes is its optional second entry, which our experts say is key for helping a cat feel secure. The front entry, at 6 inches off the ground, offers a more accessible entry to cats who can't make it to the top.
This litter box is made of sturdy injection-molded ABS plastic. To scoop, you simply fold back the perforated folding top lid.
Best nonstick
Our experts recommend scooping the litter box at least once daily. For as much time as you'll spend cleaning your cat's box, you'll likely want a hassle-free one, like this nonstick option from PetFusion. The durable ABS plastic and antistick coating extend the litter box's life while making your life easier. Most reviews say the nonstick coating lasts for months, but if you notice any peeling before it's time to replace the box, contact the company for assistance under their 12-month manufacturer's warranty.
In addition to feeling good about not scraping caked litter from the box, you may also find it satisfying to know this litter box gives your feline friend plenty of room to do their business. The box measures 22.6 inches long by 18.1 inches wide, with a height of 8 inches. It also has a cut-out entrance 5 inches from the ground. We recommend pairing this purchase (or any litter box purchase) with iPrimio's nonstick litter scoop.
Best metal
Metal is known for its durability, which is crucial when scratch marks from cat nails can create a breeding ground for bacteria. Once you spot a scratch on the bottom of a plastic litter box, it's time to replace the box, DeVoss says. As a rule of thumb, Johnson and DeVoss recommend replacing plastic boxes every six months. So, while they may cost more initially, metal litter boxes could make a better investment.
In addition to its durable material and large size (23.5 by 15.5 inches), this litter box has a versatile design. The iPrimio Stainless Steel Cat XL Litter Box comes with optional sides that extend the wall height from 6 inches to 12 inches. However, the wall extension simply sits on top of the litter box walls rather than snapping in place, so your cat could knock it off during a post-bathroom burst of zoomies.
While the elevated front entry makes this litter box attractive to pet parents of prolific diggers, seniors with arthritis may have difficulty accessing the 6-inch entryway.
Best automatic
If you want a large litter box that's also hands-off, Whisker's Litter-Robot 4 is your best bet and our top pick for the best self-cleaning litter boxes. An automatic litter box ensures your cats always have a clean box to use, which is important because cats are very fastidious about cleanliness, DeVoss says.
The Litter-Robot 4 doesn't just automatically sense waste and tumble it into an odor-locking drawer. It also provides plenty of space for your cat to feel at ease, starting with a circular entry 16 inches in diameter. The interior globe measures a roomy 15.75 by 15.75 inches. The app will notify you when to empty the waste drawer, which may be every few weeks, depending on the number of cats and litter boxes. The brand also recommends deep cleaning the globe every one to three months.
In our multi-cat household, Whisker has remained a trusted brand since the days of Litter-Robot 2, and we consider it well worth the sizable investment. That said, if you (or your cats) aren't happy with the Litter-Robot 4, you can return it within 90 days. You will, however, need to cover the cost of shipping.
Read our full Whisker Litter-Robot 4 review.
Best with high sides
When choosing the right litter box for your cat, their underlying health conditions matter. For example, conditions like urinary tract infections or kidney disease can increase urine output. In addition to getting veterinary care for your cat, you'll also want to make sure there's always enough litter in the pan to quickly soak up the urine so it doesn't pool.
The "Goldilocks box," then, may be one that has high sides, a deep base for holding litter, and an entry low enough for small kittens or cats with mobility issues. Quandt's recommendation of the NVR Miss Litterbox fits the bill. He says he has two NVR Miss Litterboxes and especially likes that the 11.2-inch walls shield the spray of his "high shooter." The interior of this box measures a spacious 21.5 by 15.5 inches. The box's entry height of 5.6 inches will work for most cats, but it may not be ideal for seniors with arthritis.
Best round
Circular litter pans are said to be ergonomically designed for cats, who tend to move in a circular motion when using the litter box. While DeVoss says there's no evidence cats prefer a circle litter pan over a box, reviewers still rave about the Boxscoop Curve XL. A cat dad engineer who's passionate about both efficiency and clean cat paws designed this round pan. It's made of durable BPA-free polypropylene plastic and has a 20.5-inch exterior diameter at its base and an interior height of 14.1 inches at its tallest point (it tapers toward the front). The box also features a unique stepping pad in the center so your cat can enter without coming into contact with clumps of waste.
To help all cats access the entry, which is 9.5 inches from the ground, Boxscoop provides an easy-access step. The step does double duty to help reduce litter tracking as your cat leaves the box. The included scoop is tailored to fit the contours of the bottom and sides of the litter channel. This makes it easy to remove waste with just one swift, circular motion around the pan. Any clumping litter works for the Boxscoop Curve. You can also purchase this pan in a top-entry design.
While the Boxscoop Curve is our top pick for round litter pans, we consider the Less Litter Box L-6 worth a mention. This stainless steel round litter pan has a 23.75 inch diameter and a height of 19.75 inches. It comes with a hefty price tag — more than $450 — but the brand says it lasts a lifetime. Since our experts recommend replacing plastic litter boxes roughly every six months, you may find this one-time purchase a wise investment.
What to look for in a large litter box
Based on input from our experts, research, and personal experience, we recommend considering these essential features when shopping for the best large litter box for your cat.
Size: Because every cat is a different size, our experts say there's no standard litter box that suits every cat. Instead, opt for a box at least 1.5 times the length of your cat, measured from their nose to their tail. Keep in mind that kittens will need a low entry and a larger box as they grow. The largest litter box should work for cats of all ages and mobility needs.
Accessibility: If you have a senior cat, kitten, or feline with special mobility needs, you'll want to choose litter boxes with low-to-the-ground entryways. The ideal entry height can vary from cat to cat, but aim for a box your cat can easily step into. To accommodate cats with mobility limitations, we chose litter boxes with low entrances or steps.
Design: Our experts recommend open litter boxes that provide cats with unobstructed views and quick escape routes. If you prefer a covered or top-entry box, opt for one with ventilation, odor control, and multiple entrances. You can also disguise an open litter box with a piece of the best cat litter box furniture.
Material: The most common materials for at-home litter boxes include plastic and metal. While plastic litter boxes are readily available and cost-effective, you'll want to replace them at the first sign of scratch marks — or about every six months, according to our experts. Metal litter boxes tend to cost more upfront but have a longer use life, as long as you don't mind the sound of cat nails on metal. We included both metal and plastic large litter box options.
Ease of cleaning: Our experts say litter boxes should be scooped daily and deep cleaned with soap and water every four to six weeks. To come up with our picks for the best large litter boxes, we considered the ease of cleaning.
Price: Our experts recommend having one litter box per cat, plus one extra. Since buying multiple litter boxes can add up quickly, we included litter boxes at a range of price points, including a DIY option.
How we selected the best large litter boxes
To get more guidance on choosing the largest litter box that works best for your cat, we consulted three experts:
Dr. Denise Johnson is a Fear Free certified veterinarian and cat behavior consultant (CCBC) at IndeVets who specializes in behavioral health and low-stress handling. Johnson helped us understand the role a cat's age and health conditions play in choosing the most appropriate litter box.
Molly DeVoss is a certified feline training and behavior specialist (CFTBS), CCBC, and Fear Free certified trainer who specializes in using positive reinforcement to modify and prevent unwanted behaviors in cats. She is the founder and owner of Cat Behavior Solutions. DeVoss helped us understand what features to look for in litter boxes, including the size, material, and design.
Stephen Quandt, CFTBS and founder and owner of Cat Behavior Help, has over 20 years of experience working with cats. His expertise lies in the understanding of feline behavior through the lens of a cat's evolution and adaptation to life with humans. Quandt helped us understand what features make a litter box functional.
Large litter box FAQs
What size is an extra-large litter box?
According to our experts, no single extra-large litter box works for all cats, as each cat has a unique size. Instead, they suggest selecting a litter box 1.5 times the length of your cat from nose to tail.
Do bigger cats need bigger litter boxes?
"The larger the cat, the larger the box should be," Quandt says. As a general rule of thumb, your cat should be able to enter the box and turn around without any body part touching the sides. If they can't turn around comfortably inside the box, it's too small.
Why do cats need a large litter box?
Cats need a large litter box to avoid stepping on soiled spots and comfortably dig and bury their waste. As mid-level predators, they have an instinct to hide their elimination from both potential prey and predators. Having a larger litter box with plenty of space between deposits allows them to bury their waste more effectively, says Johnson.
How do you know if a litter box is too small?
If your cat eliminates over the side of the litter box, perches on the walls of the box, or leaves the box to cover their waste, they typically need a bigger box. When a litter box is too small, difficult to use, or dirty, a cat may choose to eliminate outside the litter box. According to Quandt, improper elimination (pooping and peeing outside the litter box) is a leading reason people surrender their cats to shelters or rehome them.
Can large cats use a top-entry litter box?
The ability to use a top-entry litter box depends on your cat's age and any underlying health conditions. Top-entry litter boxes can be difficult or impossible for some cats to access — and if your cat has difficulty accessing their box, they're less likely to use it, Quandt says.
A litter box should be at least 1.5 times the length of your cat from nose to tail, according to Molly DeVoss, a certified cat behavior specialist and founder of Cat Behavior Solutions. Your cat's body should not touch the sides while in the box. It's also important that all cats who use it can access it easily, and it should also be easy to clean.
The KittyGoHere checks all these boxes. DeVoss's cats, including a large 17-inch long orange tabby, use this box, which she likes for its simplicity and large interior. Many cats favor a large litter box that feels natural to use, and a simplistic open design means no latches, hoods, or drawers to fuss with when cleaning the box.
At 28 inches long by 22 inches wide, this is the largest cat litter box we've seen. Even cats the size of Maine coons can comfortably enter. The design includes a low entry that's 3 inches at its lowest point, which makes the box a great option for senior cats. Many cats over 10 years old have arthritis, so providing a litter box with a low entry that doesn't require a step up is really important, DeVoss says. Walls of 9 inches high also reduce the chances of an aggressive digger kicking litter out of the box. But we do recommend pairing this purchase with a litter mat to catch any rouge litter that sticks to your cat's paws or tumbles from the entryway as they exit.
If your kitten or senior cat doesn't need quite so large of a box, another great pick is Shirley K's Senior Cat Litter Box, which is 25 inches long and wide. This box also has 9-inch sides and an entry that's just 3 inches high to accommodate cats with limited mobility.
Chewy
Our experts all agree that a cat needs more than one litter box. In fact, you should have one litter box for each cat plus one additional box. You'll also want to place these boxes in separate but secure locations. "A litter box on each floor is ideal," says Denise Johnson, a fear-fear certified veterinarian and cat behavior consultant at IndeVets. Of course, the cost of multiple litter boxes can quickly add up.
You can find plenty of litter boxes for around $15, but they tend to run on the smaller side. For a larger litter box with veterinarian-recommended features, the Smart Cat Ultimate Litter Box is an affordable pick at $25.
It has a design that Johnson prefers in litter boxes — a taller rear wall to prevent litter scattering and a tapered front for easy entry. Plus, the Smart Cats litter box is made of easy-to-clean plastic resin, and it features an extra-large rim for effortless handling. The one downside of this 25-by-18.5-inch litter box: It only comes in bright blue.
Chewy
Like top-entry boxes, covered litter boxes provide more privacy for cats and help reduce wafting odors. But unlike most top-entry litter boxes, hooded or covered boxes also offer user-friendly front entrances.
You can set up the Frisco Hooded Cat Litter Box however you and your cat prefer. If your cat doesn't like the door, you can easily remove it. If they seem hesitant to use a hooded box, you can completely detach the cover. We love this customizability because it offers the opportunity to explore your cat's personal preferences on a budget. "Keep track of what they like to do where and make adjustments accordingly," Johnson recommends.
The 26-by-18-inch litter box comes in three easy-to-assemble pieces: a high-sided pan, a hood that clips on, and a charcoal filter for absorbing odors.
When shopping for the largest litter box, you might often feel you're paying too much for a design that somehow falls short of what you want. If that's the case, DeVoss says you can make a DIY litter box from plastic storage boxes. She prefers low-sided under-the-bed bins, but clear high-sided totes work well, too.
"Select one with a bottom smooth enough to clean easily," Johnson says. And while online marketplaces can be a good place to score a cheap (or even free) storage tote, Johnson says not to purchase a used litter box.
You'll want to follow the same size requirements: 1.5 times the length of your cat. You can cut an entry door at any height to suit your cat's needs. The Iris 50-quart plastic bin measures 32 inches long by 17.75 inches wide, with a height of 6 and a half inches. In short, it's long enough for even very long cats. Our experts don't recommend covered litter boxes. However, if you'd like to leave the lid on your DIY box, adding a second entrance and ventilation slots will make the box more ideal for your cat.
Modkat
Instead of simply choosing the largest litter box you can find, you'll also want to find one that works for both you and your cat. Top-entry litter boxes do a great job at minimizing litter tracking and concealing messes in the box. However, they can also block your cat's view of their surroundings and trap odors when not cleaned frequently. Some cats may also have a harder time accessing a top-entry box. Because of these reasons, not all cats like them, Quandt says.
The Modkat XL litter box tackles some of those issues with its thoughtful feline-friendly design. First, as the name suggests, it has plenty of room: It's 21 inches long, 16 inches wide, and 17 inches tall. But what makes this design unlike other top-entry litter boxes is its optional second entry, which our experts say is key for helping a cat feel secure. The front entry, at 6 inches off the ground, offers a more accessible entry to cats who can't make it to the top.
This litter box is made of sturdy injection-molded ABS plastic. To scoop, you simply fold back the perforated folding top lid.
Our experts recommend scooping the litter box at least once daily. For as much time as you'll spend cleaning your cat's box, you'll likely want a hassle-free one, like this nonstick option from PetFusion. The durable ABS plastic and anti-stick coating work together to extend the litter box's life while making your life easier. Most reviews say the nonstick coating lasts for months, but if you notice any peeling before it's time to replace the box, contact the company for assistance under their 12-month manufacturer's warranty.
In addition to feeling good about not scraping caked litter from the box, you may also find it satisfying to know this litter box gives your feline friend plenty of room to do their business. The box measures 22.6 inches long by 18.1 inches wide, with a height of 8 inches. It also has a cut-out entrance 5 inches from the ground. We recommend pairing this purchase (or any litter box purchase) with iPrimio's nonstick litter scoop.
Metal is known for its durability, which is crucial when scratch marks from cat nails can create a breeding ground for bacteria. Once you spot a scratch on the bottom of a plastic litter box, it's time to replace the box, DeVoss says. As a rule of thumb, Johnson and DeVoss recommend replacing plastic boxes every six months. So, while they may cost more initially, metal litter boxes could make a better investment.
In addition to its durable material and large size (23.5 by 15.5 inches), this litter box has a versatile design. The iPrimio Stainless Steel Cat XL Litter Box comes with optional sides that extend the wall height from 6 inches to 12 inches. However, the wall extension simply sits on top of the litter box walls rather than snapping in place, so your cat could potentially knock it off during a post-bathroom burst of zoomies.
While the elevated front entry makes this litter box attractive to pet parents of prolific diggers, seniors with arthritis may have difficulty accessing the 6-inch entryway.
Chewy
If you want a large litter box that's also hands-off, Whisker's Litter-Robot 4 is your best bet. An automatic litter box ensures your cats always have a clean box to use, which is important because cats are very fastidious about cleanliness, DeVoss says.
The Litter-Robot 4 doesn't just automatically sense waste and tumble it into an odor-locking drawer. It also provides plenty of space for your cat to feel at ease, starting with a circular entry 16 inches in diameter. The interior globe measures a roomy 15.75 by 15.75 inches. The app will notify you when to empty the waste drawer, which may be every few weeks depending on the number of cats and litter boxes. The brand also recommends deep cleaning the globe every one to three months.
In our multi-cat household, Whisker has remained a trusted brand since the days of Litter-Robot 2, and we consider it well worth the sizable investment. That said, if you (or your cats) aren't happy with the Litter-Robot 4, you can return it within 90 days. You will, however, need to cover the cost of shipping.
NVR Miss Litterbox
When choosing the right litter box for your cat, their underlying health conditions matter. For example, conditions like urinary tract infections or kidney disease can increase urine output. In addition to getting veterinary care for your cat, you'll also want to make sure there's always enough litter in the pan to quickly soak up the urine so it doesn't pool.
The "Goldilocks box," then, may be one that has high sides, a deep base for holding litter, and an entry low enough for small kittens or cats with mobility issues. Quandt's recommendation of the NVR Miss Litterbox fits the bill. He says he has two NVR Miss Litterboxes and especially likes that the 11.2-inch walls shield the spray of his "high shooter". The interior of this box measures a spacious 21.5 by 15.5 inches. The box's entry height of 5.6 inches will work for most cats, but it may not be ideal for seniors who have arthritis.
Circular litter pans are said to be ergonomically designed for cats, who tend to move in a circular motion when using the litter box. While DeVoss says there's no evidence cats prefer a circle litter pan over a box, reviewers still rave about the Boxscoop Curve XL. A cat dad engineer who's passionate about both efficiency and clean cat paws designed this round pan. It's made of durable BPA-free polypropylene plastic and has a 20.5-inch exterior diameter at its base and an interior height of 14.1 inches at its tallest point (it tapers toward the front). The box also features a unique stepping pad in the center so your cat can enter without coming into contact with clumps of waste.
To help all cats access the entry, which is 9.5 inches from the ground, Boxscoop provides an easy-access step. The step does double duty to help reduce litter tracking as your cat leaves the box. The included scoop is tailored to fit the contours of both the bottom and sides of the litter channel. This makes it easy to remove waste with just one swift, circular motion around the pan. Any clumping litter works for the Boxscoop Curve. You can also purchase this pan in a top-entry design.
While the Boxscoop Curve is our top pick for round litter pans, we also consider the Less Litter Box L-6 worth a mention. This stainless steel round litter pan has a 23.75 inch diameter and a height of 19.75 inches. It comes with a hefty price tag — more than $450 — but the brand says it lasts a lifetime. Since our experts recommend replacing plastic litter boxes roughly every six months, you may find this one-time purchase a wise investment.
Based on input from our experts, research, and personal experience, we recommend considering these essential features when shopping for the largest litter box.
Size: Because every cat is a different size, our experts say there's no standard litter box that suits every cat. Instead, opt for a box at least 1.5 times the length of your cat, measured from their nose to their tail. Keep in mind that kittens will need a low entry and a larger box as they grow. The largest litter box should work for cats of all ages and mobility needs.
Accessibility: If you have a senior cat, kitten, or a cat with special mobility needs, you'll want to choose litter boxes with low-to-the-ground entryways. The ideal entry height can vary from cat to cat, but aim for a box your cat can easily step into. To accommodate cats with mobility limitations, we chose litter boxes with low entrances or steps.
Design: Our experts recommend open litter boxes that provide cats with unobstructed views and quick escape routes. If you prefer to use a covered or top-entry box, opt for ones with ventilation, odor control, and multiple entrances. You can also disguise an open litter box with a piece of litter box furniture.
Material: The most common materials for at-home litter boxes include plastic and metal. While plastic litter boxes are readily available and cost-effective, you'll want to replace them at the first sign of scratch marks — or about every six months, according to our experts. Metal litter boxes tend to cost more upfront but have a longer use life, as long as you don't mind the sound of cat nails on metal. We included both metal and plastic large litter box options.
Ease of cleaning: Our experts say litter boxes should be scooped every day and deep cleaned with soap and water every four to six weeks. To come up with our largest litter box picks, we considered the ease of cleaning.
Price: Our experts recommend having one litter box per cat, plus one extra. Since buying multiple litter boxes can add up quickly, we included litter boxes at a range of price points, including a DIY option.
To get more guidance on choosing the largest litter box that works best for your cat, we consulted three experts:
Dr. Denise Johnson is a Fear Free certified veterinarian and cat behavior consultant (CCBC) at IndeVets who specializes in behavioral health and low-stress handling. Johnson helped us understand the role a cat's age and health conditions play in choosing the most appropriate litter box.
Molly DeVoss is a certified feline training and behavior specialist (CFTBS), CCBC, and Fear Free certified trainer who specializes in using positive reinforcement to modify and prevent unwanted behaviors in cats. She is the founder and owner of Cat Behavior Solutions. DeVoss helped us understand what features to look for in litter boxes, including the size, material, and design.
Stephen Quandt, CFTBS and founder and owner of Cat Behavior Help, has over 20 years of experience working with cats. His expertise lies in the understanding of feline behavior through the lens of a cat's evolution and adaptation to life with humans. Quandt helped us understand what features make a litter box functional.
What size is an extra large litter box?
According to our experts, there's no single largest litter box that works for all cats, as each cat has a unique size. Instead, they suggest selecting a litter box 1.5 times the length of your cat from nose to tail.
Do bigger cats need bigger litter boxes?
"The larger the cat, the larger the box should be," Quandt says. As a general rule of thumb, your cat should be able to enter the box and turn around without any body part touching the sides. If they can't turn around comfortably inside the box, it's too small.
Why do cats need a large litter box?
Cats need a large litter box to avoid stepping on soiled spots and comfortably dig and bury their waste. As mid-level predators, cats have an instinct to hide their elimination from both potential prey and predators. Having a larger litter box with plenty of space between deposits allows them to more effectively bury their waste, says Johnson.
How do you know if a litter box is too small?
If your cat eliminates over the side of the litter box, perches on the walls of the box, or leaves the box to cover their waste, they typically need a bigger box. When a litter box is too small, too difficult to use, or too dirty, a cat may choose to eliminate outside of the litter box. According to Quandt, improper elimination (pooping and peeing outside of the litter box) is a leading reason people surrender their cats to shelters or rehome them.
Can large cats use a top-entry litter box?
The ability to use a top-entry litter box depends on your cat's age and any underlying health conditions. Top-entry litter boxes can be difficult or impossible for some cats to access — and if your cat has a hard time accessing their box, they're less likely to use it, Quandt says.
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